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Outside the Box -- Signal and Mt Cook PAMM fund

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  • #16
    Originally posted by OutsideTheBoxHK View Post

    I believe you are partially mistaken.
    Maximum exposure was 1 lot and equity was over $2000.
    Not sure which of the two below you mean? It's very important to note that this has only happened twice in the whole history of the PAMM, when I see a good opportunity and.... very important.... when I had no investors. This PAMM which I run at 2x risk has only had one investor, and when he got tired of the drawdown, he pulled out. That's when I decided to get the overall growth in the green by trading the manager account more aggressively until I was above zero. This PAMM started in Sept 2017, and now it has 9% growth in 9 months, so it's reasonably ok now.
    Then right away I got a new investor, so it seems like I addressed an issue with that account and someone responded positively.
    That investor now has profited handsomely over the past 2 weeks. And now I have throttled back risk to only 2x again.
    Really guys, not sure why you feel like criticizing systems you're not even invested in. On trades that end up good.
    Do you feel like you need something to complain about? All 4 of my accounts listed on MyFXbook are profitable, and master account track record is 17 months old, using same basic strategy.
    Perhaps I am partially mistaken but the way I read your history I concluded there was a $1000 deposit after that trade so if I deduct that from current equity and some profits you also made since then we get to that $1000 account I was talking about. Then there was this 1 lot trade that lasted just over a day and during this trade there was another 0.5 trade on the same pair and in the same direction so that makes it 1.5 lots AUDUSD long on a $1000 account.

    The outcome of the trade is irrelevant if the thought process behind it is flawed.

    You're right, I'm not invested in this and I won't be. So this will likely be the last time you hear from me in here. But seeing 1.5 lots opened on a $1000 account ment to attract or impress investors, that is indeed absurd position size.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by primi View Post

      Perhaps I am partially mistaken but the way I read your history I concluded there was a $1000 deposit after that trade so if I deduct that from current equity and some profits you also made since then we get to that $1000 account I was talking about. Then there was this 1 lot trade that lasted just over a day and during this trade there was another 0.5 trade on the same pair and in the same direction so that makes it 1.5 lots AUDUSD long on a $1000 account.

      The outcome of the trade is irrelevant if the thought process behind it is flawed.

      You're right, I'm not invested in this and I won't be. So this will likely be the last time you hear from me in here. But seeing 1.5 lots opened on a $1000 account ment to attract or impress investors, that is indeed absurd position size.
      Those types of trades definitely are not meant to attract investors. You are right.
      At the beginning of my account in Feb-Apr 2017 and also at times when I have no Fund Clients I will change my strategy at times in order to reach my own goals.
      Strategies for Copy Traders and Fund Clients are different. And all must do their own due diligence and ask good questions before they invest or subscribe - righto!
      There were times when I trade on High Probability Analysis when I will turn up Risk Ratios - yes.
      This is true with any trader trading their own money. When overall Amount of Money Risked is within contained and acceptable limits, then I shoot for the moon. And it has worked.

      And, hey, primi - why not try my Risk Free promotion right now? 12 month subscription, 2 week free trial, and Money Back Guarantee if Equity not higher by end of year. What is there to lose? Prove me wrong here publicly instead of just criticisms all day long.
      Last edited by OutsideTheBoxHK; 06-14-2018, 02:27 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        hazmat-student-guarantee.jpg
        One of the only Risk Free activities in FX Trading!!
        Limited Time Offer! Free Trial and Money Back Guarantee!


        Copy trades from one of the most profitable strategies listed on SimpleTrader.
        An absolutely unbeatable price given the returns, the recoveries, the determination, and most of all the ratio of Average monthly drawdown-to-Average Monthly return.

        Outside the Box is: drawdown 26.12% / monthly 18.20%
        Compare this ratio and the length of my track record to other top signals at SimpleTrader, MQL5, and SignalStart.

        FIRST 25 subscribers to accept then this offer closes.
        12 month subscription .... $339
        PLUS.... two weeks free trial (6 month and 12 month subscriptions).
        AND FINALLY.... a never seen before .... Money Back Guarantee (12 month subscription only).

        At end of year subscription, if equity is not higher than when you suscribed, I will refund ALL your fees. That's right. ALL 12 months.

        Promotions on SimpleTrader below last til end of summer (August)
        1 month for just 49.00 USD
        2 month for just 79.00 USD
        3 month for just 109.00 USD
        6 month for just 199.00 USD (2 week FREE TRIAL)

        Subscribe HERE
        Last edited by OutsideTheBoxHK; 06-15-2018, 06:54 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by RenkoGuy

          Scalping can be hard work but its not fit or investors. Investors need Good day and swingtraders.

          And ..... 10.7 % account grow with 18 pips profit is not for serious investors
          I will happily admit that you probably have much more experience and knowledge in this industry than I do. My investments are spread across several different avenues, and I am not able to go as deep info forex as you probably do. But I do have a problem with you making grand proclamations covering every possible type of forex investor in existence, and implicitly (or explicitly) implying that I am not serious - perhaps I am just here for shits and giggles cause I got tired of lighting my cash on fire in the backyard. Maybe for someone with your specific goals, temperament, capitalization, timezone, etc etc this system doesn't work for you.

          What I'm seriously tired of - and what keeps me largely away from this forum in general - is guys like you, primi, xinvestor, et al who just want to tear shit down. All you do is pull blocks from the system, but you contribute nothing. You are just takers and self-glorified shit stirrers who are amazing in your analytical criticism and probably love to read and re-read your powerfully incisive posts, but none of us get anywhere with that because you all just stop there. So what is your recommended course of action? Stay home and hide my cash under the bed because all systems are imperfect? I have heard hints of "great systems" and "the right way to do it" but not once have I heard examples or offerings of how or where to go. So you collectively pull us backwards two steps and scream at everybody to pump the brakes, then offer no ideas on how to move forward. *slow clap here* I've offered to accept PM's about these magic systems from any and all who have such superior knowledge, and only one has taken me up on that so far. But his system was not accepting new clients, and it recently went offline.

          I keep hearing that all it takes is a little diligence and searching, and I'm just being lazy and not finding these superior systems that you all must secretly be subscribing to. Well I spend a significant portion of each week analyzing, and I've also subscribed and/or purchased 20 some-odd systems in the last year alone. If it was out there, I'm sure I would have stumbled across it. As far as here, I was in Goldstar for a couple years and pulled out while I was still ahead. Ditto for SteadyCapture. Where were your Nostradamus predictions last year when I was way up on both of those with no end in sight? Suddenly they have a rough patch and everybody knows better.

          As far as this particular signal, OutsidetheBoxHK has been spectacular. Not just in performance, but all across the board. His communication is awesome, and not just in the good times. During a steep drawdown, I contacted him. He got right back to me with great advice. I took it, and for his part he stayed the course and came roaring back. Every. Single. Time. He doesn't hide, and things aren't always rosy. But he communicates well, and he recovers well without getting rattled or making stupid, desperate moves. Like any system, it might fail. Okay. I'm not paying a roomful of PhD's several million to beat the system, so I accept it might have vulnerabilities. But I've seen it in action, and I'm comfortable with what it is and offers. I'm also properly capitalized so if the absolute worst case happens, it's only a percentage of my total portfolio, and my bills are still getting paid.

          Whew. Sorry for spewing all over this thread, but I had it building for a while after frustrations with other threads/posters. Perhaps only a small percentage of this pertained to you, Renko, so apologies for all the rest that didn't. Also, apologies to Nick if he reads this if my language was a little rough. I appreciate what you're trying to do here, and it sucks that there are so many who love to tear down without offering a hand to build anything. Anytime I started anything - real estate, stocks, options, crypto, small business, p2p lending - all I hear is people shaking their heads about the risks and how I could lose everything. Well fine. Just do nothing then. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by OutsideTheBoxHK View Post
            hazmat-student-guarantee.jpg
            One of the only Risk Free activities in FX Trading!!
            Limited Time Offer! Free Trial and Money Back Guarantee!


            Copy trades from one of the most profitable strategies listed on SimpleTrader.
            An absolutely unbeatable price given the returns, the recoveries, the determination, and most of all the ratio of Average monthly drawdown-to-Average Monthly return.

            Outside the Box is: drawdown 26.12% / monthly 18.20%
            Compare this ratio and the length of my track record to other top signals at SimpleTrader, MQL5, and SignalStart.

            FIRST 25 subscribers to accept then this offer closes.
            12 month subscription .... $250
            PLUS.... two weeks free trial.
            AND FINALLY.... a never seen before .... Money Back Guarantee.

            At end of year subscription, if equity is not higher than when you suscribed, I will refund ALL your fees. That's right. ALL 12 months.

            Promotions on SimpleTrader below last til end of summer (August)
            1 month for just 49.00 USD
            2 month for just 79.00 USD
            3 month for just 109.00 USD
            6 month for just 179.00 USD

            Subscribe HERE
            Oh man... right after I signed up for the 6 month deal... Haha. It's okay. I more than made back the subscription fee this week alone.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by fiveninefish View Post

              I will happily admit that you probably have much more experience and knowledge in this industry than I do. My investments are spread across several different avenues, and I am not able to go as deep info forex as you probably do. But I do have a problem with you making grand proclamations covering every possible type of forex investor in existence, and implicitly (or explicitly) implying that I am not serious - perhaps I am just here for shits and giggles cause I got tired of lighting my cash on fire in the backyard. Maybe for someone with your specific goals, temperament, capitalization, timezone, etc etc this system doesn't work for you.

              What I'm seriously tired of - and what keeps me largely away from this forum in general - is guys like you, primi, xinvestor, et al who just want to tear shit down. All you do is pull blocks from the system, but you contribute nothing. You are just takers and self-glorified shit stirrers who are amazing in your analytical criticism and probably love to read and re-read your powerfully incisive posts, but none of us get anywhere with that because you all just stop there. So what is your recommended course of action? Stay home and hide my cash under the bed because all systems are imperfect? I have heard hints of "great systems" and "the right way to do it" but not once have I heard examples or offerings of how or where to go. So you collectively pull us backwards two steps and scream at everybody to pump the brakes, then offer no ideas on how to move forward. *slow clap here* I've offered to accept PM's about these magic systems from any and all who have such superior knowledge, and only one has taken me up on that so far. But his system was not accepting new clients, and it recently went offline.

              I keep hearing that all it takes is a little diligence and searching, and I'm just being lazy and not finding these superior systems that you all must secretly be subscribing to. Well I spend a significant portion of each week analyzing, and I've also subscribed and/or purchased 20 some-odd systems in the last year alone. If it was out there, I'm sure I would have stumbled across it. As far as here, I was in Goldstar for a couple years and pulled out while I was still ahead. Ditto for SteadyCapture. Where were your Nostradamus predictions last year when I was way up on both of those with no end in sight? Suddenly they have a rough patch and everybody knows better.

              As far as this particular signal, OutsidetheBoxHK has been spectacular. Not just in performance, but all across the board. His communication is awesome, and not just in the good times. During a steep drawdown, I contacted him. He got right back to me with great advice. I took it, and for his part he stayed the course and came roaring back. Every. Single. Time. He doesn't hide, and things aren't always rosy. But he communicates well, and he recovers well without getting rattled or making stupid, desperate moves. Like any system, it might fail. Okay. I'm not paying a roomful of PhD's several million to beat the system, so I accept it might have vulnerabilities. But I've seen it in action, and I'm comfortable with what it is and offers. I'm also properly capitalized so if the absolute worst case happens, it's only a percentage of my total portfolio, and my bills are still getting paid.

              Whew. Sorry for spewing all over this thread, but I had it building for a while after frustrations with other threads/posters. Perhaps only a small percentage of this pertained to you, Renko, so apologies for all the rest that didn't. Also, apologies to Nick if he reads this if my language was a little rough. I appreciate what you're trying to do here, and it sucks that there are so many who love to tear down without offering a hand to build anything. Anytime I started anything - real estate, stocks, options, crypto, small business, p2p lending - all I hear is people shaking their heads about the risks and how I could lose everything. Well fine. Just do nothing then. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
              You must have been reading my posts with your eyes closed. Just like you I'm actually an investor here and have been from almost day 1. Almost exclusively I'm posting in threads relevant to my investments unlike guys like "Xinvestor et al". I have my money on the line just like you have, being subscribed to a number of signals here still. I have searched high and low for good signals as well and they pretty much don't exist, not here not anywhere else. So we have to work with what we have and try to make the best of it. Knowing how to trade myself helps in that I can spot poor practice sooner or prevent trades I don't like getting out of hand if possible.

              There are more posts from myself defending SteadyCapture or at least trying to provide a balanced view, since you mentioned him, than there are posts of criticism. If you cared to look or read properly. But I will not be discussing this with you here because it's not the place to discuss it.

              When it comes to OutsidetheBox, I'm happy that it's working for you. And if you cared to read my 2 or maybe 3 posts in here, was any of that intended as tearing down a signal or written in a way that was perhaps inappropriate? I'm looking at possible further signals to subscribe to or replace one of my existing ones. I might even take the offer that popped up today. But please tell me what am I supposed to think about a 1.5 lot open position on a 1k account? Do you have any idea how much margin that requires? I'm in the EU and as you might know there are new regulations coming into effect in august. It will not even be possible to open a trade like that! In my book that is an absurd lot size even with current margin requirements. So I asked a question about it.

              "Is it possible that he was long 1.5 lots AUDUSD on a $1000 account (Hotforex PAMM) when his DD spiked to above 60% within a day? Or am I mistaken?"

              No LOLs, HAHAs, idiots, amateurs or any other labels for the trader. Just a very legitimate question. Discussion that followed between me and the signal provider was also on an appropriate level. If you have problems with discussion like this then you really probably should stay away from this forum. If not, you can ask me anything related to FX, unlike some other posters you mentioned I'm not taking the easy way out and am not avoiding questions.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by primi View Post

                You must have been reading my posts with your eyes closed. Just like you I'm actually an investor here and have been from almost day 1. Almost exclusively I'm posting in threads relevant to my investments unlike guys like "Xinvestor et al". I have my money on the line just like you have, being subscribed to a number of signals here still. I have searched high and low for good signals as well and they pretty much don't exist, not here not anywhere else. So we have to work with what we have and try to make the best of it. Knowing how to trade myself helps in that I can spot poor practice sooner or prevent trades I don't like getting out of hand if possible.

                There are more posts from myself defending SteadyCapture or at least trying to provide a balanced view, since you mentioned him, than there are posts of criticism. If you cared to look or read properly. But I will not be discussing this with you here because it's not the place to discuss it.

                When it comes to OutsidetheBox, I'm happy that it's working for you. And if you cared to read my 2 or maybe 3 posts in here, was any of that intended as tearing down a signal or written in a way that was perhaps inappropriate? I'm looking at possible further signals to subscribe to or replace one of my existing ones. I might even take the offer that popped up today. But please tell me what am I supposed to think about a 1.5 lot open position on a 1k account? Do you have any idea how much margin that requires? I'm in the EU and as you might know there are new regulations coming into effect in august. It will not even be possible to open a trade like that! In my book that is an absurd lot size even with current margin requirements. So I asked a question about it.

                "Is it possible that he was long 1.5 lots AUDUSD on a $1000 account (Hotforex PAMM) when his DD spiked to above 60% within a day? Or am I mistaken?"

                No LOLs, HAHAs, idiots, amateurs or any other labels for the trader. Just a very legitimate question. Discussion that followed between me and the signal provider was also on an appropriate level. If you have problems with discussion like this then you really probably should stay away from this forum. If not, you can ask me anything related to FX, unlike some other posters you mentioned I'm not taking the easy way out and am not avoiding questions.
                Great. I answered. and that trade was not on my Master Account where the signal is being offered. That trade was taken when my account was small and in its infancy before I had compounded my equity (over 100% in about 6 weeks) then I dialed the risk down and started thinking about offering signals and managed accounts once I had enough equity to live off of and not worry about the daily income anymore. Then I could take on the extra responsbility of trading with one strategy and one Risk Management plan and keep the returns near 5 to 10% per month. This is what I have done for the past year. If I keep up 100% per year, then in 5 years I will be where I want to be. And I think this is attainable considering the drawdown necessary to achieve these returns, as I have proven.
                Thanks for the discussion, but please drill down far enough to see the journey and how far I have come, all the setbacks, all the drawdowns, all the recoveries, and how much work I have had to do with open communication, learning from scratch how to build a track record worth something to the professional investor databases, and how to complete all the admin required to document and reflect on my performance in a professional and analytical way.
                FundSeeder, PsyQuation, FXStat, and Myfxbook all have given me some perspective on this goal. I have read 1000's of posts, watched 1000's of videos, and have done my absolute best to steer clear of the pitfalls that have beset FXViper, GoldStar, TradeAlerter, SteadyCapture, and the others you no doubt have researched.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by primi View Post

                  ... Almost exclusively I'm posting in threads relevant to my investments unlike guys like "Xinvestor et al". ...

                  ... There are more posts from myself defending SteadyCapture or at least trying to provide a balanced view, since you mentioned him, than there are posts of criticism. If you cared to look or read properly. But I will not be discussing this with you here because it's not the place to discuss it...
                  Noted. I'd remove you from that aforementioned group. In retrospect, I shouldn't have lumped your name in there. Although the mechanics of reading with my eyes closed is far beyond my capabilities. Also, it looks like you got your answer from the trader.

                  Originally posted by primi View Post

                  So we have to work with what we have and try to make the best of it.
                  That pretty much defines my approach to forex. Let's go make some money.

                  Originally posted by RenkoGuy
                  @fiveninefish If you like high risk than this signal is for you.

                  All other signals i warned before have blown up, lets hope this time i am wrong.
                  Thank you for finally realizing we are not all clones with identical goals. I am overloaded heavily in index funds, blue chips, and real estate. That's 98% of my portfolio, and it's not going anywhere. I understand that the risk and danger of forex can keep most here up all night or endlessly posting on forums, but that is not my primary concern with regards to forex. Long-term, I'm fine with my nest egg. I'll retire either way. Short-term, I'd like to see what I can do with some discretionary money to maybe move that date up a bit. That doesn't mean I'm going to be stupidly wasteful, but I'm also not looking to eke out a steady 0.5% a month.

                  Every system I'm in has recently gone through or is getting out of a rough patch, and OTB is my only manually traded system that has come out ahead so far. His dips were shorter, and his recovery was quicker. Don't know why I'm spending time defending the guy, but he is one of the few who doesn't run when things get rough. He also doesn't start trading like a desperate lunatic either. However, I'm mindful that the worst could always happen, so he's still only getting a percentage of a percentage of my capital.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Outside the Box - Mt Cook PAMM.GBP_AUD.Thu, 24 May 2018 00_00_00 GMT-Mon, 25 Jun 2018 16_00_00 GMT.png
                    What is the reason behind so many small traders , small duration time, and both long and short positions?

                    I would also like to view your lotsizes on one of your accounts? Can you open up the lotsizes?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by HedgeBitcoin View Post
                      Outside the Box - Mt Cook PAMM.GBP_AUD.Thu, 24 May 2018 00_00_00 GMT-Mon, 25 Jun 2018 16_00_00 GMT.png
                      What is the reason behind so many small traders , small duration time, and both long and short positions?

                      I would also like to view your lotsizes on one of your accounts? Can you open up the lotsizes?
                      This is my strategy. I do what I have observed over 1000's of hours to work.
                      I do not go into great depth about my strategy without very good reason. But basically it depends on probability. All of trading is stacking the probability over a given time that you will be right.
                      In other words, I am a day trader, which means I work at my screen at least 9 hours, 6 days a week if not more. Therefore I am constantly scanning for setups on different timeframes. If it is a 5 min chart setup, then the time horizon of the trade is significantly less than a setup I choose to take on the 1 hour or 4 hour chart. There is a time to take shorts, and an advantageous time to take longs. How was the performance?
                      For very good reason I keep my "lot sizing" private on these public sites. You could work it out by some clever deduction and calculation, using percentages and balance and proportions.
                      Why is this important to you? In my system description, I say my max exposure at any one time is 1 standard lot per $10,000, and I keep to this.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I saw one trade on eurusd that lost 36% from 100 pips, another 400 pips loss resulted to -18% and another 100 pips resulting in -18% so I knew that you are using different lotsizing per trade setup. So you lost about half your account in one day. https://i.gyazo.com/52c572e5ae2ed954...d24945849b.png
                        If you opened 1 lot on $10000 balance and had a 100 pip loss, that would be 10% of your account , not 36%. So thats why I wanted to see your lotsizing.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          You added 5k to your account balance before you opening these trades, Were you trying to up your lotsizes during this time and it just went bad?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by HedgeBitcoin View Post
                            I saw one trade on eurusd that lost 36% from 100 pips, another 400 pips loss resulted to -18% and another 100 pips resulting in -18% so I knew that you are using different lotsizing per trade setup. So you lost about half your account in one day. https://i.gyazo.com/52c572e5ae2ed954...d24945849b.png
                            If you opened 1 lot on $10000 balance and had a 100 pip loss, that would be 10% of your account , not 36%. So thats why I wanted to see your lotsizing.
                            My strategy and risk management have been revised slightly due to the desires and needs of clients: once in June 2017 after I compounded my startup equity and began providing trade copying, and then once again. When I was strategizing how to gain geographical independence by depending more on trading income, after I had backtested my strategy sufficiently, I knew that I had to be able to make a certain amount of money per week and per month, so yes I was trying to multiply those initial deposits by increasing my lot sizes (back in those days I was trading 2 lots on $4000 equity, so it was much higher risk - but if you have an accurate system, then you can increase your lot sizes and execute a money management plan so that you always preserve enough capital to be able to recover the drawdown in under 2 months). The severe loss you are looking at was definitely one of my mistakes that taught me a lot. I spoke about it at length on Donna Forex, as it involved FOMC speaker Janet Yellen on March 15 I think and I had 2 open positions before her speech. I chose to leave them open, which was an idea that I have not repeated. My strategy and risk management have progressively been improved over the last year for sure.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Thank you for the detailed reply, "My strategy and risk management have progressively been improved over the last year for sure." I definitely agree. Keep up the good work.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                June 2018
                                Outside the Box HK scalping system has been on fire

                                New High Water Mark
                                June profits -- 14.4%
                                Growth-to-Drawdown Ratio -- 33.6


                                Only 4 other systems offering trade copying at SimpleTrader have a higher key value ratio! Ask any trader. This is normally how you determine value of a trading system --- Return-to-Drawdown Score --- along with Age of Track Record, and this master account is 71 weeks old now.

                                I have two new systems for which I will give you the track records here. I put $500 towards the higher risk and $1000 towards the medium risk, as then most of my equity is invested in the low risk strategy and yet I can test my skill in the more active trading too. If you are interested in these new systems, contact me via comment or private msg. These accounts do not yet have $3000 equity so I cannot list them here yet.

                                MEDIUM RISK -- UP 47% this month https://www.myfxbook.com/members/Out...x-pamm/2239172
                                HIGH RISK -- UP 164% this month https://www.myfxbook.com/members/Out...ovider/2450316

                                June2018equityFXStat.JPG
                                Last edited by OutsideTheBoxHK; 06-29-2018, 08:28 PM.

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