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Outside the Box -- Signal and Mt Cook PAMM fund

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  • Originally posted by primi View Post
    He will probably need a lot of luck to not hit 15% DD by next wednesday.
    Not Really. JUST REDUCE THE LOT SIZE!! I have no idea why he takes such Large Lot Risk. I am so risk-averse that I try to do as much as I can with the smallest lotsize possible. I HATE!! huge recoveries after the inevitable Black Swan. Between the Market Maker Spikes and just Global Financial Instabilty, I'd rather just eat the loss if I'm not on the right side of the banks.

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    • ** UPDATE AFTER THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED ** New Improved OTB Core Strategy is now fully tested and active. Once I have access to the correct PC terminal I will update all the strategies on Myfxbook, make public those I had made temporarily private, and I will explain how the new improvements are working.

      NEW IMPROVED STRATEGY: Basically, 4 levels of risk, taking profits down the Risk Spectrum at end of month, 15% hard stop for baskets of trades, and allowing some winners on certain high risk accounts to run longer with breakeven stop losses in place.

      I have 3 other risk levels running as investment accounts in my own PAMM fund, and this is where I diminish or accelerate the profits (These past two months I had about $50,000 in a 2x risk account -- so that made 2x 25% and 2x 22% this month. The "gain" times certainly pay for the "pain" times. I wish I didn't have to keep reiterating this, but those who just don't want to admit this or just don't have cajones to sink their balls in (which is patience and self control in addition to a testosterone thing) are blind or not fully capacitated yet.

      In the good smooth times when the strategy works well with quite reduced periods of drawdown, I will hit 2.5x or 3x the profits. Then, as I've said, move these profits into 1x risk or even 0.8 or 0.5x risk so these are protected and will continue compounding. And of course, the biggie, cut all accounts, including the Risk Multiplier slaves, once master approaches the 10 to 15% area.

      lather, rinse, repeat. leave the rat race within 2 years. Then do things you love to do (if that includes hanging out on FX forums and picking apart strategy providers - count me out)
      Last edited by OutsideTheBoxHK; 08-07-2019, 09:24 AM.

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      • Best month for Outside the Box ever.
        #1 strategy for growth today
        #2 strategy for growth in August

        after all the low blows when the strategy just needed some tweaks and minor improvements. some deep thought. some work.
        I liken it to a chugging engine, pumping out dollars when it is smoothly calibrated and oiled and fuelled.
        throw a spanner in there, and then it needs some work. don't throw the baby out with the bath water though, give it some work, get it finely tuned.
        get it back into rare form. then let it do what it's designed and capable of doing. pumping profits "Pain vs Gain" Ratio style.

        should show all beginning and developing traders that you best keep focusing on developing and designing your strategy and your execution. Leave the naysayers to their pity parties.

        Westie what's to criticise?
        ccjhuang you probably are a lemming, following the herd as they make fun of the next person when they are down. And really?? You want to put me down, a fellow strategy provider, when your published system went negative for a period of 2 years, and only recently managed a high risk recovery, and has a max drawdown of 88%??


        Originally posted by primi View Post
        He will probably need a lot of luck to not hit 15% DD by next wednesday.

        You probably won't succeed in forex investment with your attitude.


        Originally posted by Amadorian View Post
        Lets see how your new 12%dd account works out.
        You probably should pick another weaker and less resilient and less determined trader to challenge.

        Screen Shot 2019-08-10 at 3.46.37 AM.png
        Screen Shot 2019-08-10 at 4.00.36 AM.png
        Last edited by OutsideTheBoxHK; 08-10-2019, 11:26 AM.

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        • Let me ask you something. What's the gain if you loose 99% of your account and then increase what's left by say an incredible 50% ? Can you calculate that for me? Or will you conviniently avoid the question?

          And then, when you get me that number go one step further and calculate another 99% loss. And when you're done with that, you can increase that number again by 100% if you feel so inclined because I'm very generous. You need to go down another 99% from there though, for the third time.

          That's the reality of your trading. You blew 1 account every 2 months. Nobody can make money that way except you by charging subscription fees. And not only that, you actually increased the cost after you blew yours and many other acconts. I know. I was there. Unfortunately.

          Get back to me when you have that number then.

          Comment


          • Lol thanks for the screenshot, I didnít even know my account is No. 1 at the moment on the big gainers list for this month.

            I admire you for your persistence with your systems, but after blowing so many accounts I feel your systems are still work in progress and you really shouldnít be charging people subscription fees. They are right that there is no point bragging about a daily gain of 4.57% or monthly gain of 29.25% if you are going to lose it all back at some point in the future.

            It seems to me that your system is like a betting system against the casino - you make money for a period of time, but eventually you will lose it all back at some point - because your system does not have a long term statistical edge over the market.

            I am not trying to criticise you. I am just saying those based on my observations. I wish you all the best with your trading, but I think you should publish your system only when you can back it up with a 10-year backtest, or at least with 12 months of positive live results.
            Last edited by ccjhuang; 08-09-2019, 11:17 PM.

            Comment


            • Haha, what the hell, i never wrote that (attachment), i don't know if you did this on purpose or by mistake, but that is just bullshit

              But nah, i choose you, its fun.

              Enjoy the party as long as you can... with that high risk, a big drawdown is inevitable. And maybe... just maybe... wait for a month to end before calling it the best month
              Last edited by Amadorian; 08-09-2019, 11:34 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by primi View Post
                Let me ask you something. What's the gain if you loose 99% of your account and then increase what's left by say an incredible 50% ? Can you calculate that for me? Or will you conviniently avoid the question?

                And then, when you get me that number go one step further and calculate another 99% loss. And when you're done with that, you can increase that number again by 100% if you feel so inclined because I'm very generous. You need to go down another 99% from there though, for the third time.

                That's the reality of your trading. You blew 1 account every 2 months. Nobody can make money that way except you by charging subscription fees. And not only that, you actually increased the cost after you blew yours and many other acconts. I know. I was there. Unfortunately.

                Get back to me when you have that number then.
                These are easy calculations to perform. It's the time on each of those systems that they earned profits before the eventual crash. We all know this.
                And now I also have added a 15% max drawdown, so this is a moot point. This system does have an edge, you'd be blind to not see that on the equity curve. You don't go 29 months with a max drawdown of 26% and Overall Growth of 267% without a consistent and proven edge in the market.

                This point is well taken on high risk systems that eventually blew up, certainly. Again, you're like a broken record. We've gone round this mulberry bush many times before. After a certain number of months, some of them one, a few months, or almost a year. But not ALL of them. This is where you miss out and since you don't want to be invested the WHOLE time or all of the Risk Levels like I have done, you are not convinced when the next long run of small drawdown and good profit is going to occur so you don't invest. But many of my initial private investors and trade copiers and myself are still in the Low Risk system with 113% gain over 3 years and we withdrew profits along the way on Medium Risk and High Risk systems! These profits could have been maximised too if they had turned up the risk multiplier during less volatile periods like I have done. I have my Risk multiplier set at 2x these past two months after the large drawdown to recover to the High Water Mark more quickly, and so I am within 2 or 3 months of attaining this, even shorter if I keep having awesome gains like I have done in July and August.

                Comment


                • Ask your investors if one of them is willing to share their story with us, of how they made money with you. Would really like to see stats of one of those people. Seriously!

                  And may i remind you that, (if i remember correctly you wrote it in the satang thread some time ago) you increased the max dd because your account didnt do well. As we can see, the first year you sometimes took losses (good!), and it ended more or less breakeven. Looking back over the last year there were so many times when the floating dd was higher than 15%. So it'll be interesting if you can recover faster than the dd happening.

                  Comment


                  • As for "convincing" you and other verbose, loose-lipped people here...

                    I can sympathise with your paranoia and unwillingness to trust people these days in the world we live in. I would've loved more "proof" of the answers I sought in the early going too.
                    That said, I don't have enough incentive to go to my loyal and sane investors for the SOLE PURPOSE of proving their "private, off-the-record and offline" profits to cynical people here who seemingly can't or don't want to properly analyze the predominant features of an equity curve.
                    Those who have eyes to see -- will see.
                    Those who have discerning minds -- will understand all that needs to be understood. And hopefully in a balanced way.



                    1. I see you don't want to be convinced or persuaded.
                    2. This journey and feed is now intended for other people who want to engage in healthy and balanced intellectual discussion
                    3. I want to protect the assets under management and re-claim the high water mark as quickly and as safely as I can
                    4. I do not want more drama
                    5. I do want to serve people who are kind, respectful, stats-minded, profit-minded, and bold in their decisions.
                    6. when people make money in some creative endeavour, they normally don't want to share the methodology with others, because they want to enjoy it as much as possible in privacy and safety
                    7. I trust that the public will review the equity curve, the stats, the trade history, and will make their own decisions regardless of seeing "proofs" of profits that have already been verified by MyFXBook, SignalStart, MQL5, and other independently verified forex trading platforms.
                    8. Some of my other clients have posted in this thread previously, if others want to freely do so now, I will allow them to make their own recommendations.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ccjhuang View Post
                      Lol thanks for the screenshot, I didnít even know my account is No. 1 at the moment on the big gainers list for this month.

                      I admire you for your persistence with your systems, but after blowing so many accounts I feel your systems are still work in progress and you really shouldnít be charging people subscription fees. They are right that there is no point bragging about a daily gain of 4.57% or monthly gain of 29.25% if you are going to lose it all back at some point in the future.

                      It seems to me that your system is like a betting system against the casino - you make money for a period of time, but eventually you will lose it all back at some point - because your system does not have a long term statistical edge over the market.

                      I am not trying to criticise you. I am just saying those based on my observations. I wish you all the best with your trading, but I think you should publish your system only when you can back it up with a 10-year backtest, or at least with 12 months of positive live results.
                      You want to put me down, a fellow strategy provider, when your published system went negative for a period of 2 years, and only recently managed a high risk recovery, and has a max drawdown of 88%?? How many negative months did your system have? How much total time under the previous high water mark? 2 years? Who would invest in that? There are many more opportune times to invest in my strategy and get out with a profit than your system.

                      SFE EAs + manual trades


                      Screen Shot 2019-08-11 at 7.30.31 AM.png
                      Screen Shot 2019-08-11 at 7.33.39 AM.png

                      Comment


                      • First of all, I donít really need any subscribers because I can just trade and make money for myself. I started using the SFE EAs since 2016 and with my early success people have asked to copy my account so I started the signal. I am not bothered if I have no subscribers at all, but I am just staying around to let people know how they should trade forex properly to make money in the long term - stick to a system that has a long statistical edge over the market!

                        You are right that the drawdown period can be long with the SFE EAs, but itís the long term result that really counts. Personally I am happy to have a DD for a year or two as long as the account will eventually get back to equity high. The sad thing is most people only look for short term profits and they end up always losing in the long term because the systems they use have no statistical edge over the market.

                        About the DD on my account. I had recently posted an explanation about it on Donna Forex, but I will post it again here so people can understand:

                        Also just a quick word about the drawdown on my account.

                        I know 88% drawdown seems scary, but it's because I actually choose to leave most of my funds in my bank account to offset my home mortgage rather than leaving it in the Forex account just to make the DD look smaller.


                        I am prepared to invest at least $100K in this account so if you look at the profit graph attached, the absolute DD was only about -$15K which means the absolute DD was only 15% out of the $100K I am prepared to put in if required. Even if you go for the biggest trough from +$30K to -$15K which is a loss of -$45K, it would be 45% loss which is well within what I am prepared for. After all, trading SFE PA at 3 lots per trade is only recommended for a US$300K account (0.01 lot per US$1000 was recommended by the author), which is equivalent to trading a US$300K/0.68 = AU$441K account.

                        Of course, trading AU$100K capital for a virtual AU$441K account means I would still be wiped out if there is a DD of $100K/$441K = 22.7% or more (trading at recommended risk). But knowing the EA's cycles and how it works, I am quite confident now is the time it will start making gains instead of losing more (as I explained in the previous post it's now about time for SFE PA to make some gains given it's reaching its past max drawdown and it has had 4 months of losses until now).

                        Anyway, there's my little trading secret. You can feel free to still call me a gambler, but we will see if the numbers hold up for me in the next few months.


                        SFE Profit graph.jpg

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by OutsideTheBoxHK View Post
                          As for "convincing" you and other verbose, loose-lipped people here...

                          That said, I don't have enough incentive to go to my loyal and sane investors for the SOLE PURPOSE of proving their "private, off-the-record and offline" profits to cynical people here who seemingly can't or don't want to properly analyze the predominant features of an equity curve.
                          We did properly analize the equity curve and found it impossible for investors to make money with your signals.
                          Well, thats sad as i don't believe in myths.

                          1. I see you don't want to be convinced or persuaded.
                          2. This journey and feed is now intended for other people who want to engage in healthy and balanced intellectual discussion
                          3. I want to protect the assets under management and re-claim the high water mark as quickly and as safely as I can
                          4. I do not want more drama
                          5. I do want to serve people who are kind, respectful, stats-minded, profit-minded, and bold in their decisions.
                          6. when people make money in some creative endeavour, they normally don't want to share the methodology with others, because they want to enjoy it as much as possible in privacy and safety
                          7. I trust that the public will review the equity curve, the stats, the trade history, and will make their own decisions regardless of seeing "proofs" of profits that have already been verified by MyFXBook, SignalStart, MQL5, and other independently verified forex trading platforms.
                          8. Some of my other clients have posted in this thread previously, if others want to freely do so now, I will allow them to make their own recommendations.
                          1.- Wrong, thats why i'm asking for facts, which you sadly don't have the incentive to provide.
                          2.- We have a healthy discussion.
                          3.- I don't doubt that, i doubt that it'll work out as you try to convince us.
                          4.- Less arrogance, honesty and sticking to the rules you set yourself would help.
                          5.- okay.
                          6.- okay.. whatever..
                          7.- Thats what we are doing, reviewing everything. Also the many crashed accounts that aren't visible anymore. They are important, its those accounts that change the big picture.
                          8.- Nice that you allow them the freedom of speech


                          Comment


                          • Amadorian Noted. You doubt. We all have heard it many times and in many forms before. Then you'll just have to wait. In the meantime, we'd love to see what type of trading you do believe in, the awesome successful trading that you are accomplishing on your own.

                            Just had a subscriber write this morning stating he is nearly going to surpass the $75,000 limit I have placed on this SimpleTrader signal. I have another signal with UNLIMITED MAX INVESTMENT or PAMM fund for those with investment capital over $75,000. This investor is obviously very happy with my services and trading.

                            I cannot give further proof as I do not have permission from them and do not want to ask this permission because it's basically pointless. All trade records, private messages, screenshots can be falsified when a trader has the incentive and the lack of morals -- and I've seen this on forex websites repeatedly -- so I choose not to engage in this sort of proof. Instead I choose to focus on my trading and on the satisfied investors who do choose to take the risk along with me.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by OutsideTheBoxHK View Post
                              Amadorian Noted. You doubt. We all have heard it many times and in many forms before. Then you'll just have to wait. In the meantime, we'd love to see what type of trading you do believe in, the awesome successful trading that you are accomplishing on your own.

                              Just had a subscriber write this morning stating he is nearly going to surpass the $75,000 limit I have placed on this SimpleTrader signal. I have another signal with UNLIMITED MAX INVESTMENT or PAMM fund for those with investment capital over $75,000. This investor is obviously very happy with my services and trading.

                              I cannot give further proof as I do not have permission from them and do not want to ask this permission because it's basically pointless. All trade records, private messages, screenshots can be falsified when a trader has the incentive and the lack of morals -- and I've seen this on forex websites repeatedly -- so I choose not to engage in this sort of proof. Instead I choose to focus on my trading and on the satisfied investors who do choose to take the risk along with me.
                              Hmm...I would say if you canít give proof for whatever reason, then you shouldnít even mention those accounts in the first place as thatís just pointless.

                              Comment


                              • My "should" is different than your "should".
                                I serve the wider community, not overly-active doubters, complainers, and/or vindictive.
                                Hopefully these subscribers and/or clients will be prompted by my posts and they will choose on their own to verify what I am describing. If not, I will leave my word as my word.
                                Going forward, I know you will continue to say that I have not followed my "rules/guidelines" so how can I then be trusted?
                                Well, I would say there is a difference between:

                                1 - living by and obeying 100% of my trading guidelines
                                2 - and providing details about the End Result / Gains / Profits that investors have made

                                One can be verified by looking at the trading history... and has led to MORE PROFITS than losses. Which primi has even calculated for everyone to see.
                                The TOTAL PROFIT from all systems that I have run over the past 3 years on MyFXbook are at least $40,000 USD. On invested capital of far less than that.

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