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  • #91
    Originally posted by HedgeBitcoin View Post
    The issues with OutsideTheBoxHK are

    "MYFXBOOK:
    https://www.myfxbook.com/members/Out...tforex/2450316 -- more details of this account
    https://www.myfxbook.com/members/Out...ccount/2087437 -- master account
    http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/...e-box-hk/22160 -- master account
    ------ 50% copies off master account of Fund Manager, 50% other separate manual trades on smaller timeframes
    ------ 20 months track record on Outside the Box Master Account
    Target yield 20 to 30% per month (10 to 20 pips per trade dependent on market conditions)
    Max drawdown of 50% from High Water Mark
    Max Exposure of 7 lots per $10,000 balance.
    Suggest following this high risk signal with $500 to $1000 initially AND use broker with tightest spreads (zero spread if you can find it)
    Then use only profits to compound account size exponentially as we grow long term. After initial investment recuperated, keep invested for at least 6 months and withdraw profits only when absolutely necessary.

    Scalping using MACD, RSI, Stochastic and Ichimoku indicators (2 for Mean Reversion and 2 for Trend Following entries/exits).
    Focus on Price action studies and knowledge about market behavior of institutional order flow in each session, market maker strategies, momentum, and volume.
    The aforementioned combined with basic concepts such as support, resistance, candlestick patterns, and Elliott Wave provide a basis to receive multiple confirmations regarding the timing of trades.
    RISK MANAGEMENT implements a scale-in and scale-out approach, only during risk events will stop losses be utilized, setting Stop Loss to above Breakeven on a obvious winner."

    The bold text.

    Both were disregarded this week. He did not close his positions at 50%, and he did not use any stoploss going into the CPI data. It was a 50/50 chance the account survived or margincalled. Lucky him, his High risk account survived. Going forward if I were to follow this High return signal, it would be 0.25x since I now know his descriptions are useless and he doesn't follow them. He will margincall the account at some point in the future.

    By the way, I read your descriptions and that is why I asked the simple questions about you using equity protection or not. This week was also your largest drawdown ever, so looking at your previous drawdowns don't clarify the real risk going forward. To me it doesn't matter if you made profits previously when you are willing to risk everything on the next basket of trades because as I said before, with my luck I join today, and you margincall tomorrow.


    Sorry that description was not updated. Please see the description from SignalStart which you had originally inquired about.
    It's simple: You don't like the returns, drawdown, or the way I trade, then don't subscribe. I have worked far too hard and far too long to put too much attention on nay-sayers, detractors, and critics. Thanks for pointing out a mistake I hadn't fixed in Myfxbook, and please put your energy into making the best decisions for yourself to make profits and to build whatever your heart intends to build.
    “Learn from your mistakes and do not give up!”

    Outside the Box - Myfxbook
    Outside the Box - SimpleTrader Trade Copying

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by HedgeBitcoin View Post
      The issues with OutsideTheBoxHK are

      "MYFXBOOK:
      https://www.myfxbook.com/members/Out...tforex/2450316 -- more details of this account
      https://www.myfxbook.com/members/Out...ccount/2087437 -- master account
      http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/...e-box-hk/22160 -- master account
      ------ 50% copies off master account of Fund Manager, 50% other separate manual trades on smaller timeframes
      ------ 20 months track record on Outside the Box Master Account
      Target yield 20 to 30% per month (10 to 20 pips per trade dependent on market conditions)
      Max drawdown of 50% from High Water Mark
      Max Exposure of 7 lots per $10,000 balance.
      Suggest following this high risk signal with $500 to $1000 initially AND use broker with tightest spreads (zero spread if you can find it)
      Then use only profits to compound account size exponentially as we grow long term. After initial investment recuperated, keep invested for at least 6 months and withdraw profits only when absolutely necessary.

      Scalping using MACD, RSI, Stochastic and Ichimoku indicators (2 for Mean Reversion and 2 for Trend Following entries/exits).
      Focus on Price action studies and knowledge about market behavior of institutional order flow in each session, market maker strategies, momentum, and volume.
      The aforementioned combined with basic concepts such as support, resistance, candlestick patterns, and Elliott Wave provide a basis to receive multiple confirmations regarding the timing of trades.
      RISK MANAGEMENT implements a scale-in and scale-out approach, only during risk events will stop losses be utilized, setting Stop Loss to above Breakeven on a obvious winner."

      The bold text.

      Both were disregarded this week. He did not close his positions at 50%, and he did not use any stoploss going into the CPI data. It was a 50/50 chance the account survived or margincalled. Lucky him, his High risk account survived. Going forward if I were to follow this High return signal, it would be 0.25x since I now know his descriptions are useless and he doesn't follow them. He will margincall the account at some point in the future.

      By the way, I read your descriptions and that is why I asked the simple questions about you using equity protection or not. This week was also your largest drawdown ever, so looking at your previous drawdowns don't clarify the real risk going forward. To me it doesn't matter if you made profits previously when you are willing to risk everything on the next basket of trades because as I said before, with my luck I join today, and you margincall tomorrow.

      This is the high return text you are referring to: http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/...h-return/33972

      Do as you see fit. Descriptions for me are guidelines not strict rules. And that is why I am a trader, self employed, and an outside the box thinker. Look where it has propelled me in life. I know I don't profit in life, career, and self actualisation by playing by the rules 100% of the time. This is the world we live in. If this is not your ideology or thought pattern then it's fine. Find your strategy and go for it.


      HRdescription.JPG
      “Learn from your mistakes and do not give up!”

      Outside the Box - Myfxbook
      Outside the Box - SimpleTrader Trade Copying

      Comment


      • #93
        Dishonest.png
        So now you just photoshopped the description to blank out the "MAX DRAWDOWN of 50% from HIGH WATER MARK"

        unbelievable.
        Put the edge in your hands.
        Crypto MarketMaker Robot
        Github - Contact for Verified Trading History

        Comment


        • #94
          I liked how you were trading, That's why I am asking some simple questions. but now after you break your trading plan you want to change the descriptions, say that they are not strict rules, say that the description is incorrect, and you don't play by rules. Interesting conversion non the less.
          Put the edge in your hands.
          Crypto MarketMaker Robot
          Github - Contact for Verified Trading History

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by HedgeBitcoin View Post
            I liked how you were trading, That's why I am asking some simple questions. but now after you break your trading plan you want to change the descriptions, say that they are not strict rules, say that the description is incorrect, and you don't play by rules. Interesting conversion non the less.
            We all make plans. A teacher does. A politician does. Doctors do. And lawyers do. Then we step out the door in the morning and the randomness and uncertainty collide with our limited human plans.
            I execute my profession no different than any of these above mentioned professionals. I stick to it nearly all of the time. Look at my track record. There were two other occasions even on the master track record when "outlier" environments descended upon the markets, and as a trader I fight my way thru it the best I know how.
            When I was a kid, I had the worst type of staph pneumonia, and the doctor gave me antibiotics at home. It didn't work. Then I was inpatient for 2 weeks, and they subjected me to um-teen probes, tests, x-rays, and 20 cm needles in my back to extract mucus from my lungs. Then finally they used the strongest type of penicillin, and I got better.
            I don't criticise the doctor, because I know he was doing his best to help me.
            This is how I view my profession. I help you follow me, after 15 years trading, to piggy back on my knowledge and skill.
            I sometimes have to improvise. I do not apologise.
            “Learn from your mistakes and do not give up!”

            Outside the Box - Myfxbook
            Outside the Box - SimpleTrader Trade Copying

            Comment


            • #96
              We as subscribers can only really control 2 things:

              1. do we want to subscribe or not
              2. the risk we're willing to take

              Whether we want to subscribe or not depends on your description of what you're doing, so it's important that your description is accurate and that you're actually adhering to it. If you don't do that then what we thought was the basis for our decision isn't really there.

              After we decide to subscribe we decide what risk we're willing to take and thankfully we can scale it up or down to suit our needs. This is all very important. It's an agreement between the trader and the subscriber.

              I'm a subscriber. A week into my subscription I find out that what the description says is actually not what I'm getting and that you don't really care. By now I should not actually be surprised anymore because with amature providers that's pretty much all one can expect. There's nobody out there that can hold them accountable so they can pretty much do what they please.

              So the best bet I can take is to take margin call as the worst possible case and adjust my risk accordingly because that's the only thing that you can count on to stop your losses (at least under ESMA). I can understand the need for flexibility but that doesn't excuse you from breaking the agreement. In real world there are lawyers that step in when that happens.

              Comment


              • #97
                Interesting. The trader got lucky on today, no question about it. You will wipe out the account sooner or later but you are just after subs money so he doesnt really care. The worse thing is that you broke the rules set in the description. Now you calls these rules guidelines;-) These are all hope and hold strategies and its funny how you keep talking about yourself as some great Fund manager. The fact is that all your systems are crap and the high risk ones will sooner or later blow up. And if you cant respect the rules on one account, how do you guys trust him to respect the rules on other accounts in the future?

                And which emerging fund is desperate enough to take a chance on this?

                As for all your "projects" I think it would be much better for you to focus on one system and really work on it instead of having all these different systems and all of them average at best. I guess you just want to make as much money from subs as possible which should tell people a lot. You are all over the place with your trading, your explanations, your rules or lack there of...

                Comment


                • #98
                  And now for a contrary opinion: I like the High Risk signal exactly how it is. My original investment is already doubled and withdrawn, so I have this running on autopilot now. 99% of the time and with 99% of signals, I would say we need strict rules and adherence to them. However, I've lost a lot of capital with traders 'strictly' following their rules, and frankly I'm tired of losing. These strict traders struggled to make a profit or even worse took repeated losses that while technically might be within the fine print of their risk guidelines, all add up to significant amounts. IN THIS INSTANCE and ONLY with this particular account, I like a trader who can be flexible and push the boundaries a bit and see his way out of a tough but temporary situation. I basically put a small amount on this admittedly high risk signal and mentally counted it as a loss. I've lost far more than this amount in a single month from disciplined, 'flagship' traders anyways.

                  I realize that it is important for the decision-making process to have an accurate idea of potential risk, but just do what I did and put a small amount and count it as a loss. Perhaps the wording in the description needs to be altered to make it a 'soft' 50% drawdown or something, but please do not change a winning system to fit some self-destructive fine print. Add an extra line in there or an asterisk or something. Or just tell people that it will have a significant potential to blow up, but also have a slightly better chance of rocketing off to the moon.

                  Look at the graph of my High Risk account here - it's ridiculous. Normally I wouldn't even waste time with a signal/graph like this. Who in their right mind would put anything more than throw away money on this, but for crying out loud it's winning. Soon I might be actually be looking at some serious profit, and maybe then I'll start worrying again... With any other trader I would have bailed at the first dip, but I've been following OTB for almost a year now. I'm finally comfortable with his ability to handle and quickly recover from a drawdown. And I hope he doesn't change the secret sauce on his signal.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by fiveninefish View Post
                    I realize that it is important for the decision-making process to have an accurate idea of potential risk, but just do what I did and put a small amount and count it as a loss. Perhaps the wording in the description needs to be altered to make it a 'soft' 50% drawdown or something, but please do not change a winning system to fit some self-destructive fine print. Add an extra line in there or an asterisk or something. Or just tell people that it will have a significant potential to blow up, but also have a slightly better chance of rocketing off to the moon.
                    That's the thing. You invested small and counted it as a loss. You can always play like that and you might get lucky - or you already got lucky. Which just means that his DD is effectively 100%. It is with this high risk signal and since it's the same guy trading everything else it's also 100% for all other signals. I can't trust him to adhere to any rules and there's no way in hell I'm backing him with any serious amount of money after this.

                    It's entirely fine with me if he wants to risk the whole account. He just needs to tell it like it is so that we can make adjustments. Because I don't want to risk the whole account and I want to be sure that I'm not risking it and I don't want any surprises!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by primi View Post

                      That's the thing. You invested small and counted it as a loss. You can always play like that and you might get lucky - or you already got lucky. Which just means that his DD is effectively 100%. It is with this high risk signal and since it's the same guy trading everything else it's also 100% for all other signals. I can't trust him to adhere to any rules and there's no way in hell I'm backing him with any serious amount of money after this.

                      It's entirely fine with me if he wants to risk the whole account. He just needs to tell it like it is so that we can make adjustments. Because I don't want to risk the whole account and I want to be sure that I'm not risking it and I don't want any surprises!
                      Maybe I got lucky. But there are varying degrees of luck involved in any investment. Maybe you were one of the few lucky people who happened to withdraw your money from Bear Stearns in February 2008. But then maybe you put all that money into Myspace and got 'unlucky'. You calculate the odds and make your best guess. Aside from printing dollar bills or selling cocaine, that's about all we can do. To that end, I got lucky in real estate. I had a strategy that frankly went up in flames, but thankfully market machinations beyond my control bailed me out and made a nice profit. A buddy of mine met a guy on the beach in Fiji who offered to let us invest some pre-IPO money into a company he started called GoPro. That was lucky, but it was unlucky in that I only invested $1000.

                      This account was risky, but it was a calculated risk. We are all adults here, and we all realize there are zero guarantees in the forex market. Everything is stacked against us. I already said that I understood this to be a high risk gamble, and I'm fine with that since this represents a fraction of a percent of my investment capital. I gauge the risk on all my potential investments and allocate capital accordingly as I'm sure you do. If somebody puts serious money on this, they are insane. Put silly money on this, and maybe it turns into serious money like mine has. I calculated the odds of this account blowing up as pretty high, but I also was willing to take a chance since I happen to have a history with this trader. For me, that lowered the odds somewhat. You probably have no history with him, so there are no mitigating factors for you to bring that potential risk down.

                      Don't conflate this signal with his standard OTB signal. If he played fast and loose with that one like he does with this one, I would have left long ago. My allocation to that one is far higher, and I pay much more attention to that account. Because of that, I almost pulled out a couple of times, but his clear, unhesitating replies to my PM's (even when in drawdown) and sound advice on how to better manage my risk kept me around. My level of trust with his trading is further solidified because it's primarily the profits from his signal that has floated me past all numerous losses I've gotten on virtually every other account I have. Yes, they all say this is a 'rough' time to be trading, but somehow he keeps generating profit. Nothing lasts forever, but for now things look okay. And meanwhile I'll just keep withdrawing profits from this golden goose until it stops laying.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by primi View Post
                        We as subscribers can only really control 2 things:

                        1. do we want to subscribe or not
                        2. the risk we're willing to take

                        Whether we want to subscribe or not depends on your description of what you're doing, so it's important that your description is accurate and that you're actually adhering to it. If you don't do that then what we thought was the basis for our decision isn't really there.

                        After we decide to subscribe we decide what risk we're willing to take and thankfully we can scale it up or down to suit our needs. This is all very important. It's an agreement between the trader and the subscriber.

                        I'm a subscriber. A week into my subscription I find out that what the description says is actually not what I'm getting and that you don't really care. By now I should not actually be surprised anymore because with amature providers that's pretty much all one can expect. There's nobody out there that can hold them accountable so they can pretty much do what they please.

                        So the best bet I can take is to take margin call as the worst possible case and adjust my risk accordingly because that's the only thing that you can count on to stop your losses (at least under ESMA). I can understand the need for flexibility but that doesn't excuse you from breaking the agreement. In real world there are lawyers that step in when that happens.

                        I do my best. And I do care very much. For trades and for those who are following me.
                        I am held accountable by whether you continue your subscription or not. Control what you control, and I will do the same. I will not encroach on your territory, and you do the same.
                        I have demanding people and trading challenges all the time.
                        So I will choose to let this alone the way it is. I have updated the descriptions, and I did not attempt to hide or mislead in any way. I have already said that sometimes I need to improvise, and as you can see once again it paid off for those who trusted me. There is no firm agreement between subscribers and providers, and this is just a fact of trade copying. You cannot pressure me into 100% adherence to my description, but I said I will adhere to it religiously, outside of very rare unwanted unexpected circumstances.
                        “Learn from your mistakes and do not give up!”

                        Outside the Box - Myfxbook
                        Outside the Box - SimpleTrader Trade Copying

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Xinvestor View Post
                          Interesting. The trader got lucky on today, no question about it. You will wipe out the account sooner or later but you are just after subs money so he doesnt really care. The worse thing is that you broke the rules set in the description. Now you calls these rules guidelines;-) These are all hope and hold strategies and its funny how you keep talking about yourself as some great Fund manager. The fact is that all your systems are crap and the high risk ones will sooner or later blow up. And if you cant respect the rules on one account, how do you guys trust him to respect the rules on other accounts in the future?

                          And which emerging fund is desperate enough to take a chance on this?

                          As for all your "projects" I think it would be much better for you to focus on one system and really work on it instead of having all these different systems and all of them average at best. I guess you just want to make as much money from subs as possible which should tell people a lot. You are all over the place with your trading, your explanations, your rules or lack there of...

                          Xinvestor I will only respond to you once, as your interaction on this site has been mostly negative and that is not what I am here for.
                          1. Luck does play a small part in trading success. Many great traders admit this.
                          2. I earn performance fees, commissions, my own equity gains, and sub fees.
                          3. The AxiSelect Incubation program shows that I have performed well and am currently ranked #1 in the Stage 2 of 3 of their emerging fund manager program.
                          4. Some people trust me because I have a quite lengthly track record of both losses and gains. and consistency.
                          5. When I enter a basket / core position, I have Plan B, Plan C, and a Plan D. These provide extra support to my original entry idea.
                          6. People like you have said in the past all long my hero journey that I will blow up accounts. Guess what? I only see Green Fields of Pips on all 9 accounts below.
                          7. Your criticism propels me to keep servicing my 125 trade copying subscribers on 3 strategies, and 16 fund clients well.
                          8. My system is a customised form of a grid, but more complex. It has proven to be both profitable and accurate. Look at my Trading scores/statistics on FXStat, MQL5, MyFXBook, PsyQuation, Hotforex Copy, Darwinex, SimpleTrader, SignalStart, and Fundseeder.
                          9. If you can produce better results, more well liked results, or more consistent result please show me and the community.
                          10. I will no longer respond to you. I wish you all the best in this great world God has made.
                          PortfoilioOct2018.JPG
                          “Learn from your mistakes and do not give up!”

                          Outside the Box - Myfxbook
                          Outside the Box - SimpleTrader Trade Copying

                          Comment


                          • I also subscribe to the standard OTB signal and am very pleased with how it is managed. If I wanted to allocate a small amount to the high risk strategy where would I find the link is it available on simpletrader? Thanks.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by fabx View Post
                              I also subscribe to the standard OTB signal and am very pleased with how it is managed. If I wanted to allocate a small amount to the high risk strategy where would I find the link is it available on simpletrader? Thanks.
                              The OTB High Return strategy will be available on SimpleTrader in November.
                              For now it can be copied on MQL5, SignalStart, and HotForex Copy. I cannot post the links here because I believe ForexSignals does not allow outside links to competition in the trade copying sphere.
                              Just search for it on 1 of the 3 above mentioned platforms, or wait for it to be active on SimpleTrader next month. ST requires 6 months track record and $3000 balance.
                              I told my followers that as soon as my balance has surpassed this level by a sufficiently large margin then I will activate it on ST. I now have met both requirements, starting with only $500 balance and now having $4500 in about 6 months.
                              “Learn from your mistakes and do not give up!”

                              Outside the Box - Myfxbook
                              Outside the Box - SimpleTrader Trade Copying

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by fabx View Post
                                I also subscribe to the standard OTB signal and am very pleased with how it is managed. If I wanted to allocate a small amount to the high risk strategy where would I find the link is it available on simpletrader? Thanks.
                                1. #1 Ranking on HotForex Copy
                                2. #6 Ranking on SignalStart
                                3. #2308 Ranking on MQL5 (MT4 category)
                                “Learn from your mistakes and do not give up!”

                                Outside the Box - Myfxbook
                                Outside the Box - SimpleTrader Trade Copying

                                Comment

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