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  • Using more than 1 signal on a live account

    I just wondered how many people use more than 1 signal provider on 1 account. I realise that normally its wiser to keep just one provider per account but there are pro's and con's to this. These questions are probably more relevant to a VIP client but I welcome input from any signal user. My views on it are changing recently following Vipers DD and I wondered if there is a better way. Of course all vendors will have DD and if you subscribe to a few then potentially they all could run into DD together causing a massive headache. But what if you used say 3 or 4 providers but ran them all at lower than normal risk. For example 4 traders at 0.5 risk would equate to roughly 2x normal risk on a signal. Pro's to this would be better diversification, potentially less DD at any one time. Con's would be cost, but to a VIP member this wouldnt matter. Appreciate any thoughts on this

  • #2
    I think you're right, VIP allows you to have both portfolio diversification and negation of signal costs whilst allowing you to run traders at a lower risk.

    Just be aware that under your proposed circumstances, one would be opening a single account up to the potential pitfalls of a combination of sig providers risks should something untoward happen.

    For a start, you need to make sure that you are savvy with the max lot and max DD settings, for as much security as is currently possible with the current version of SimpleTrader public admin settings management.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by The Hobbit View Post
      I just wondered how many people use more than 1 signal provider on 1 account. I realise that normally its wiser to keep just one provider per account but there are pro's and con's to this. These questions are probably more relevant to a VIP client but I welcome input from any signal user. My views on it are changing recently following Vipers DD and I wondered if there is a better way. Of course all vendors will have DD and if you subscribe to a few then potentially they all could run into DD together causing a massive headache. But what if you used say 3 or 4 providers but ran them all at lower than normal risk. For example 4 traders at 0.5 risk would equate to roughly 2x normal risk on a signal. Pro's to this would be better diversification, potentially less DD at any one time. Con's would be cost, but to a VIP member this wouldnt matter. Appreciate any thoughts on this
      In the discussions I've had with other subs I think running multiple signals is quite common. I personally run several at varying risks.
      However some signals are better suited to being used on a "diversified" account than others

      For example I don't believe Viper is well suited to being run alongside other signals. You must allocate 15% of your account to Viper for DD that will earn you 2% per month whereas allocating 15% to TA will earn closer to 10-12% per month (using historical DD).

      Also in myfxbook check what the longest held trade has been (not average trade length but longest duration). A signal where the longest trade was 1 day is unlikely to have DD coincide with other signals DD whereas a signal who holds positions for months at a time is more likely to cause headaches.

      Just my views of course. Best of luck

      Comment


      • #4
        Just to step in here guys - I would say that the vast majority of users do run multiple signals on each account. I'd say its about 80% of users run multiple signals - its a high number.

        But as you have already pointed out - its important to select what traders you choose for each account. You want to try and pick signals that will compliment each other.

        Comment


        • #5
          Will pearcy and potter have basically nailed it. Good luck. My recommendation would be figure out the worst case scenario for each signal in DD, add them up together and don't go over 50-60%

          Sent from Uranus

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          • #6
            Thank you all for feedback so far. I will be changing over soon to VIP membership ( If I can get flat, or close to it ) so I will have access to more providers without extra cost. I'll have to weigh up all the options as suggested and try to get a good combination. It doesnt really matter to me if I only use 2 or even 1 provider or if I use 4 providers, its about getting it right to provide best income with least exposure. Please continue with suggestions for a sound portfolio. @ WillT..Maybe its something that FS should look at, recommendations for a package rather than just promoting each individual trader

            Comment


            • #7
              Hey Hobbit,

              When planning in running more than one signal on the same account at the same time, you must consider their "Worst Case Scenario" (maximum average Drawdown at any given point), as well as the maximum open positions and volume (lots) that can be traded with default risk, to then do the proper calculations to setting them up accordingly to your personal risk allowance and available leverage... In "normal" cases, in order to avoid a Margin Call, you don't want the Margin Level to go below 200% with all signals being at their maximum Drawdowns at the same time, also trading with their max possible number of trades and volume... So beforehand, you should have that information from the providers ;-).

              Good luck!
              Víctor

              Comment


              • #8
                the most important thing is that you can't use "Risk multiplier using account Balance" nor "...using account equity" in a portfolio.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why is that??

                  Originally posted by cyberryder View Post
                  the most important thing is that you can't use "Risk multiplier using account Balance" nor "...using account equity" in a portfolio.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kmf View Post
                    Why is that??
                    it's the same issue as if you use multiple EA's on the same account: Profit or DD of signal A will influence lotsize of all the following trades of signals A, B, C on this account, while it should only influence lotsize of signal A.

                    formula for "Risk multiplier using account Balance" is : (Your balance ÷ Signal equity) x Multiplier x Signal Lot size = Your Lot Size

                    what we would need is a virtual balance stored in forexsignals database for each signal on the same account.
                    Last edited by cyberryder; 09-21-2014, 06:24 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have been using "Risk multiplier using account Balance" just so this situation didn't happen. I figured using this option would not affect the other signal lot sizes.

                      Have I been wrong all along??

                      Could Nick, or Will or Daniel give us their take on this?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        it should not affect the lot size "unless" your "other" traders have increase/decreased your balance during the current set of trades from said provider, for example for me, viper today opens a .12, it stay open from 3 weeks, in that time my balance grows, viper then adds to the posistion, instead of another .12 i get a .14 as this month it turns out m traders have done well an my balance grew... so in this shown case, that if a basket was openend their could be a difference in size in either direction, this all depends on your performance during a basket.

                        what ive personally learnt is, equity is alot riskier,



                        balance using equity with multiple providers is a "no go" (for me) for example, just go get your self in DD and watch how quickly your baskets become unbalanced

                        (i use the following on 2 of 4 accounts)
                        balance using balance, deals with most of the above negative side affects but also has its own issues, this method can also over expose/ cause incorrect lot sizing on a basket of trades i have to say, although it is evident lot sizing difference using this approach still happens, yet in IMO is a better route than using equity, this is based on my own experiences.

                        the third option avaliable to us all an i guess its the least used likely(i just swapped dayfox and viper to it) is Lot multiplier.

                        Now if you want lot "accurancy" over a whole basket then for sure use this setting - its is single handly the most accurate setting avaliable to us. the only downside i see if for accounts like mine, i look to compound "daily", the top two options follow this somewhat, the second being the best, my understanding is that i would have to adjust lot size daily in order to compound daily ( please someone correct an explain how i can set it up and it compound)
                        Last edited by dupapa; 09-21-2014, 11:06 PM.
                        http://www.myfxbook.com/members/dupapa

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have one account simultaneously running:

                          Viper x3
                          TradeAlerter x1
                          SmartTrader x1

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by cyberryder View Post
                            the most important thing is that you can't use "Risk multiplier using account Balance" nor "...using account equity" in a portfolio.
                            Originally posted by dupapa View Post
                            the third option avaliable to us all an i guess its the least used likely(i just swapped dayfox and viper to it) is Lot multiplier.

                            ...

                            Now if you want lot "accurancy" over a whole basket then for sure use this setting - its is single handly the most accurate setting avaliable to us. the only downside i see if for accounts like mine, i look to compound "daily", the top two options follow this somewhat, the second being the best, my understanding is that i would have to adjust lot size daily in order to compound daily ( please someone correct an explain how i can set it up and it compound)
                            Hello, my first post here

                            I have the same doubt here due to VIP club membership "forcing" to use multisignals on one account

                            Using "Risk multiplier using account Balance" would be the best setting to copy trades with right size but the balance is the mix of the results of many singnals and big (?) mistakes could occur when a master trader wants to hedge his position. Considering how much Dayfox uses hedging makes this a scary problem

                            The proposal of Dupapa to use "Lot multiplier" seems good but it is not because we don't know when a master trader makes a deposit or a withdrawal on his master account therefore BIG changes of risk could happen without advice. This is the dark side of lot multiplier, don't understimate because it happens

                            At the end of the day "Risk multiplier using account Balance" is still the best choice, not perfect, but with less bad sides according to me, very IMHO

                            I would like to have an opinion by Will who could give us a good tip on this critical setting

                            last but not least: please let VIP members to reach the magic limit of 20K with a group of account instead of a big one, at least till this issue will be definitly solved implementing the wise proposal of cyberryder to use a phantom balance for each signal

                            Thank you very much

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BMM View Post
                              Hello, my first post here

                              I have the same doubt here due to VIP club membership "forcing" to use multisignals on one account

                              Using "Risk multiplier using account Balance" would be the best setting to copy trades with right size but the balance is the mix of the results of many singnals and big (?) mistakes could occur when a master trader wants to hedge his position. Considering how much Dayfox uses hedging makes this a scary problem

                              The proposal of Dupapa to use "Lot multiplier" seems good but it is not because we don't know when a master trader makes a deposit or a withdrawal on his master account therefore BIG changes of risk could happen without advice. This is the dark side of lot multiplier, don't understimate because it happens

                              At the end of the day "Risk multiplier using account Balance" is still the best choice, not perfect, but with less bad sides according to me, very IMHO

                              I would like to have an opinion by Will who could give us a good tip on this critical setting

                              last but not least: please let VIP members to reach the magic limit of 20K with a group of account instead of a big one, at least till this issue will be definitly solved implementing the wise proposal of cyberryder to use a phantom balance for each signal

                              Thank you very much
                              up

                              please an answer on this

                              any plan to introduce ghost balance per signal to have accurate sizing in case of multiple signals running on a single VIP account using "Risk multiplier using account Balance"

                              thank you very much in advance

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