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  • #61
    I totally appreciate the desire to set your own risk, however selling signals for a monthly fee at scale just isn't commercially viable for a few reasons.

    1) When a trader has a negative month on signals they lose a very large proportion of subscribers. Whereas in the MAM almost everyone stays invested because it doesn't cost them anything. So any "down" periods really hurt our signal subscriber base to a point where we need to work hard to recover.

    2) The liability is reduced since we're able to set risk at an appropriate level. I understand the majority of people know what they're doing, but just yesterday I was given a court order to compensate a client for thousands of dollars who blew their account when they mistakenly ran a signal at 300x due to not understanding the software. So now I either need to spend time, money and energy fighting what I looks to be a very obvious error on their part, or cop the loss.

    3) The MAM is more equitable for everyone. Clients only pay a share of the money they actually make, so if a trader has a negative period they need to work for free until they recover it, and if they do a good job and a client wants to allocate a significant sum of money to their trading they are rewarded accordingly. Is it fair that a trader with one of the longest track records in the industry offer unencumbered access to their trades for a few hundred dollars per month? I don't think it is.

    There are some developments happening with Mt Cook and it appears there might be the ability for them to offer MAM clients the ability to fund in their own currency and set their own risk & drawdown parameters in the coming months. If that happens then it will give us the best of both worlds. Because what I'm hearing is that you guys really just want the flexibility to set it up as you see fit.
    Click here to check out the most popular forex channel on YouTube

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Mike O View Post

      Any suggestion on how a 30% performance fee can be charged on a signal? Are you suggesting that Nick and co. should trust subscribers to send 30% by Paypal every month?
      Yeah,Sounds good, Don't pay your invoice ! ,Simple. The Service is disconnected at the close of the Basket , and no further re-connection till you do pay.
      Simples !!
      Last edited by genki7; 08-31-2016, 03:17 AM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Nick
        I totally appreciate the desire to set your own risk, however selling signals for a monthly fee at scale just isn't commercially viable for a few reasons.

        1) When a trader has a negative month on signals they lose a very large proportion of subscribers. Whereas in the MAM almost everyone stays invested because it doesn't cost them anything. So any "down" periods really hurt our signal subscriber base to a point where we need to work hard to recover.

        2) The liability is reduced since we're able to set risk at an appropriate level. I understand the majority of people know what they're doing, but just yesterday I was given a court order to compensate a client for thousands of dollars who blew their account when they mistakenly ran a signal at 300x due to not understanding the software. So now I either need to spend time, money and energy fighting what I looks to be a very obvious error on their part, or cop the loss.

        3) The MAM is more equitable for everyone. Clients only pay a share of the money they actually make, so if a trader has a negative period they need to work for free until they recover it, and if they do a good job and a client wants to allocate a significant sum of money to their trading they are rewarded accordingly. Is it fair that a trader with one of the longest track records in the industry offer unencumbered access to their trades for a few hundred dollars per month? I don't think it is.

        There are some developments happening with Mt Cook and it appears there might be the ability for them to offer MAM clients the ability to fund in their own currency and set their own risk & drawdown parameters in the coming months. If that happens then it will give us the best of both worlds. Because what I'm hearing is that you guys really just want the flexibility to set it up as you see fit.
        I would totally agree with everything u said 100% except for the part that i see management fees would be better calculated on quarterly basis .. not on monthly basis .. as its seen quiet professional to do so and real equity highs are the ones that r maintained for a quarter. . Working with some traders on monthly basis watermark resulted in them ending a year making 10% profit off my money and i ended negative ... just an opinion though

        Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Sherif View Post
          I would totally agree with everything u said 100% except for the part that i see management fees would be better calculated on quarterly basis .. not on monthly basis .. as its seen quiet professional to do so and real equity highs are the ones that r maintained for a quarter. . Working with some traders on monthly basis watermark resulted in them ending a year making 10% profit off my money and i ended negative ... just an opinion though

          Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk
          The only way that would work is if clients locked in their investment for a 3 month period, and observing the emotional nature many people here approach their investments, liquidity seems to be the primary concern.

          If you leave your investment in for long enough it'll all come out in the wash regardless of which structure is used.
          Click here to check out the most popular forex channel on YouTube

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          • #65
            There could be a cap limit on capital invested into a signal so it could be fair for all... Signal subscribtion fee brings trader a stable income (management fee) which is a good comfort. paying 100usd a month for 50k investment is a 2.5% p.a. management fee which is still above industry standard.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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            • #66
              Originally posted by ales View Post
              2.5% p.a. management fee which is still above industry standard.
              You're comparing two different industries. That would be a management fee for a fund which picks stocks to buy and hold for a long term investment. 2.5% per year is pitiful for a trader, and far below the industry standard of 30%.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Mike O View Post

                You're comparing two different industries. That would be a management fee for a fund which picks stocks to buy and hold for a long term investment. 2.5% per year is pitiful for a trader, and far below the industry standard of 30%.
                30% from a profit which isnt a case for Kili neither Vijay this year. Think both would be happy for those 2.5%... Think there still should be an option for both, MAM and a signal.

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                • #68
                  I've said this at least a half dozen times. How about a signal copying service that does NOT let the client change risk multiplier to higher than 2x?????????????????????

                  You could also set limits on the signal as you have done for viper in 5k or 10k increments and the fees for the signal are different depending on your balance.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by chooch View Post
                    I've said this at least a half dozen times. How about a signal copying service that does NOT let the client change risk multiplier to higher than 2x?????????????????????
                    Yes. And if you want higher than 2x, then you should need to physically sign and upload a scanned document confirming that you understand and accept the risk.

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                    • #70
                      Agree max risk should be hard coded to 2x and client should sign a document waiver before anything above 2x risk is allowed.

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                      • #71
                        I don't want to be a negative nelly, but also don't want to ignore your suggestions.

                        $50k Cap?
                        We already have a cap in place, and people go out of their way to get around it, even attempting to resell the signals on other networks.

                        Max 2x risk?
                        It doesn't work because you could be trading in Yen, Ruble or on a spread betting account. They all require very different risk settings, sometimes 100x in order to get the equivalent 1x risk on their native currency.

                        Charging performance fees in arrears on signals?
                        This would be a logistical nightmare, calculating, invoicing and chasing clients for payment. It's fine if you've got 20, or even 100 clients. But it limits our ability to scale due to the manual intervention needed. It also exposes us to the risk of people getting around the performance fee the same way they attempt to get around the $40k cap.

                        Click here to check out the most popular forex channel on YouTube

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                        • #72
                          It seems you really are not interested in the signals copier any more.
                          Why not put that part of your business up "For Sale" ,with the copiers to remain with access to the traders and you could get an ongoing kick back.
                          Someone else may have the inspiration/desire to take it on and build it up again and try and overcome the challenges you have suggested.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by genki7 View Post
                            It seems you really are not interested in the signals copier any more.
                            Why not put that part of your business up "For Sale" ,with the copiers to remain with access to the traders and you could get an ongoing kick back.
                            Someone else may have the inspiration/desire to take it on and build it up again and try and overcome the challenges you have suggested.
                            Sure, if there's someone out there that wants to take it on we'd be happy to discuss a partnership.

                            We wouldn't sell it because we use the technology for our own use, but as far as developing and marketing it, as you can probably tell, our focus is elsewhere.
                            Click here to check out the most popular forex channel on YouTube

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                            • #74
                              Well....

                              What a disappointment.

                              Due to the horrible performance of Smart2 and the continued cold run of Kilimanjaro we've decided to stop FX Fusion as a portfolio product.

                              SteadyCapture has been killing it for the past year and it's not fair that he shoulders the burden of carrying the other traders to such an extent. As a result, we've decided to shift the FX Fusion accounts onto SteadyCapture exclusively where he'll be running at 1.2x risk.

                              All FX Fusion clients received an email at the beginning of the week noting the change. Smart2 has already been removed (fortunately missing the latest losses) and Kilimanjaro will be removed once the current open positions are closed.

                              The existing high watermark will continue to be honored, thereby giving all clients a reasonable expectation that if you stick with it, SteadyCapture will recover your losses without incurring performance fees.

                              Here's the new page on Think Huge Investments for clients wanting to invest in SteadyCapture: https://www.thinkhugeinvestments.com...steady-capture

                              GoldStar, SteadyCapture and FX Viper are the guys that are going to build our wealth. I regularly get asked if we have any new traders on the horizon, which we do, but I'm in no hurry to introduce them. The damage a poor performing trader can have on the site and on our accounts far exceeds what a profitable trader contributes.

                              If I'd been running GoldStar, SteadyCapture and FX Viper exclusively for the past 2 years I'd have surpassed my $1mil goal months ago.
                              Click here to check out the most popular forex channel on YouTube

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