Outside the Box -- Signal and Mt Cook PAMM fund

[primi]

Want more?

Deposits 10189
Withdrawals 5100
Remaining equity 734
RESULT net loss -4355

[primi]

I've got more of these.... Your own system, your own account, again conveniently hidden

Deposits 3958
Withdrawals 3400
Remaining equity 0
RESULT net loss -558

[primi]

OK, let's go. Your own system, your own account (now conviniently hidden) with 12 months of history

Deposits 6824
Withdrawals 870
Remaining equity 1492
RESULT net loss -4462

Let me know, how much you think it would have lost if your advice for long term success would have been adhered to? Remember, the one you just gave me? Deposit a couple of times a year?

[OutsideTheBoxHK]

Some people harass others, complain, nit pick, nag, and just plain make life miserable for others.
Some avoid these people like the plague and dream big and go for their dreams -- even when their is risk of failure and non-stop difficulty.

BonusCashFX with $1000 equity on SimpleTrader and ONLY one month trade history-- system shouldn't even show up on the MarketPlace, let alone be talking down at others who have been here for 2 or 3 years.
One month track record -- 7% return and higher max drawdown than overall growth. Keep it up. But not time to boast or talk down at other traders eh.
you know what over-used word keeps doing the rounds? DELUSIONAL. Shouldn't this type of word be applied to those who have shown no performance or experience themselves?
My low risk system made $56,000. Cold hard cash.
first high risk system made over 200% in one year with relatively low drawdown.
Successive systems are explained above -- no longer public on myfxbook -- to be made public again after the track records have been repaired and once the new updates have been applied.
I made over $100,000 in performance fees and subscription fees. (highest month being over $40,000 USD in performance fees alone) So pls go blow your horn or other big instrument elsewhere if you really want to legitimately compare or compete.
As soon as you have recorded stats like below, pls come back and I'll listen.

To top it off - nowhere near finished yet.
3rd place for returns in July 2019 on their monthly leaderboard - that is with everyone doubting my ability and right after a large drawdown.

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Screen Shot 2019-07-30 at 4.58.58 PM.png

[Amadorian]

So there are plenty of opportunities to take profits off the table and to re-cycle to a lower risk level -- the shortest amount of time in the above 4 scenarios is 8 months!!! You mean you always want to measure everything by the investor who unfortunately invested one month before each MAX drawdown started?? That is never the strategy providers fault and cannot be timed or avoided.

So primi , if you really want profits and you think you can generate MORE OVERALL PROFIT proven on myfxbook accounts from JULY 2019 right after my max drawdown occurred on the low risk account, then ANTE UP. Let's show everyone who can earn more profit then in the next 6 or 12 month period.
And really that "put your money where your big loose mouth" challenge goes for anyone else who has acted like they can do better or who is listening to these constant complainers.

Recycle to a lower risk level? Taking the money out of your high risk signal, putting it in your lowest risk signal, and then having a 60% dd? Makes sense.

Forget that stupid challange, you don't make any sense. Would a journalist be a better politic than the people they critizize most, most possibly not, its not what they are good at. But they are great in letting people know about the crap politics do. We don't have to be better traders to identigy flaws in your strategy, as they are very obvious.

You dont have to be a mechanic to be able to notice that something is wrong with your car when it makes weird noises.
You don't have to be Agassi oder Graf (as you mentioned them in one of your posts) to identify a bad tennisplayer.
If you get bad food in a restaurant you dont go into the kitchen and show the chef that you can do better. You tell him its bad.

[Amadorian]

Once again, very closely analyze my 29 month equity curve -- if many more of my trade copying subscribers had switched to PAMM fund investment with Performance Fee compensation I certainly would have made MUCH more in fee income, and THEREFORE I wouldn't have been pushed to take more risk in order to satisfy TRADE COPIERS who had connected in the past 3 to 6 months and to keep earning above average profits so that the many fickle subscribers would remain even after excellent returns. This is the only way to make it when you start out with under $50,000 of your own capital, a bare track record, and many more trade copiers than fund clients.

You don't make any sense, first you tell us a hundred times that you are not trading for copiers, you are trading for yourself and they can be LUCKY(!) to have the opportunity to follow your trading. And now suddenly you trade just to satisfy trade copiers?!

[BonusCashFX]

LOL!! I thought this dude would be HIDING in the Forest!! This is the best FX soap opera going right now. Never heard of him until I stumbled across a post of him holding his kids on SImple Trader (it was obvious a CrAsH had happened). Googled OTB. Read the Fascinating thread on Donna Forex (truthfully a couple times its so good). Donna kicked him off the thread and I thought it was over. Came over here today and see the latest post is in a OTB thread!! AND HE'S STILL ON HERE!! Oh Joy!!...

Dude is straight up Delusional and thinks he's 'figured' out the markets. Had been away from FX and came back to see that the Hi-Risk systems like this arent really on C2 anymore so I thought things had changed. (was like a casino over there a couple years back. Spectacular Profits then BOOM!! a few times per week). I thought people had wised up to these types of systems but looks like nothing really changed. The Marty equity curve is just that POWERFUL!! When I see a chart with the equity curve UNDER the balance thats my 1st RED FLAG.

I'm just glad to see another OTB thread. Dude has blown so many systems that I dont know why its not sold as a "Margin-Call" system. If they were presented like like 'Gambling' instead of 'Investing' I could get behind them. Better odds than the craps table and I'd expect to Win BIG or Lose It All. I wouldnt even be mad if it blew on the day after I signed up since going in I would only risk 'gambling' money. (I have the same attitude in Vegas. I dont expect to win and only play for fun, if I play at all)

Hi All and Cya Later. I've got 27 pages to Read...

NOTE: I've got a system I'm maturing so even though its in my sig its just something to 'watch' for the next couple months. Ignore it. Not trying to sell anything... YET. (we will sell no wine before its time...)

[OutsideTheBoxHK]

primi

The only way it would have worked with you is to just get incredibly lucky and reduce capital at exactly the right moment provided that one subscribed at the very beginning (day 1 pretty much) which is totally unrealistic. Every other scenario you loose huge because even without adding there was not enough profits to get out without a loss.

Again and again and again and again. Words words words while no one else is proving they are generating more profits elsewhere -- percentage wise or nominally based.
But actually I expect better and deeper thought from you primi
The time for words is over. Put your money on the table eh.
I am going to get permission from my other private clients to make their accounts public and I will make some of my other strategies public again too.
But I am going to wait first to see who takes my challenge. Then I will reveal the TNT powder that I keep dry.

1 - "every other scenario" -- this just doesn't cut it. sorry. blanket statements without proof or without referring back to real graphs, charts, statistics, and equity curves just isn't serving anyone here.

How about the 8 months without drawdown over 25% on the high risk account?
How about the 13 months without drawdown over 40% on the medium risk account?
AND the biggie.... how about the 15 months without drawdown over 12% and 29 months without drawdown over 35% on the low risk account?

In the first instance the overall gain was over 250%
In the second instance the overall gain was over 100%
and in the last instance there was 78% gain in the 12% max drawdown period and 250% gain in the whole 29 month period.

So there are plenty of opportunities to take profits off the table and to re-cycle to a lower risk level -- the shortest amount of time in the above 4 scenarios is 8 months!!! You mean you always want to measure everything by the investor who unfortunately invested one month before each MAX drawdown started?? That is never the strategy providers fault and cannot be timed or avoided.

So primi , if you really want profits and you think you can generate MORE OVERALL PROFIT proven on myfxbook accounts from JULY 2019 right after my max drawdown occurred on the low risk account, then ANTE UP. Let's show everyone who can earn more profit then in the next 6 or 12 month period.
And really that "put your money where your big loose mouth" challenge goes for anyone else who has acted like they can do better or who is listening to these constant complainers.

[primi]

Trade copiers are not resposnible for your bad trading. The sooner you get this into your thick head the better. But I'm not holding my breath....

That's exactly how I approach trading - with a long term view. And I'm a subscriber, never PAMM investor. Starting small and adding to the capital a couple of times. But this doesn't work with you.

The only way it would have worked with you is to just get incredibly lucky and reduce capital at exactly the right moment provided that one subscribed at the very beginning (day 1 pretty much) which is totally unrealistic. Every other scenario you loose huge because even without adding there was not enough profits to get out without a loss.

Is that colorful enough for you? That's the reality everybody sees except you. All your other accounts except the very first one lost capital for everybody, including yourself. At default risk. That's a huge achievement and every rookie out there is capable of replicating this achievement with no outside help if he saw FX for the first time this morning.

[OutsideTheBoxHK]

Complete bull$hit. The only reason for you to say this is because you'd love to have tons of PAMM clients instead of copiers because you expect to make more money on performance fees.

But this is still very much pointless because for anybody to make any money you need to have first of all a profitable underlying strategy and a responsible trader. And here we don't have neither the first nor the second.

You either haven't truly done good research or you simply don't want to admit to the wider community / those interested that the best way to invest in Forex is with a longer term mindset, set a rescue level where you want to cut all trades, add capital 3 or 4 times a year, have multiple accounts with different levels of risk, and to develop a closer relationship with your manager. This is exactly what the experienced guys at Mt Cook have created in their Hybrid PAMM software, including being able to switch the denomination of your investment account between AUD, USD, EUR, GBP, and soon JPY and HKD too. Set rescue levels & Risk multipliers.
Once again, very closely analyze my 29 month equity curve -- if many more of my trade copying subscribers had switched to PAMM fund investment with Performance Fee compensation I certainly would have made MUCH more in fee income, and THEREFORE I wouldn't have been pushed to take more risk in order to satisfy TRADE COPIERS who had connected in the past 3 to 6 months and to keep earning above average profits so that the many fickle subscribers would remain even after excellent returns. This is the only way to make it when you start out with under $50,000 of your own capital, a bare track record, and many more trade copiers than fund clients.

[Amadorian]

Amadorian
so so funny and telling that you just deleted your other more recent post, which actually gave Outside the Box a great compliment and acknowledged how well I have been managing the recovery so far...

Are you dreaming or do you need glasses? What post did i delete? Is it even possible to delete a post? I think not, you can just edit it to a blank post basically. (EDIT: Okay, lots like you can delete a full post, didn't know that)
Complete BULLSHIT there

Did i ever say nice recovery? Possible but unlikely, and certainly not in the last few month. But if you get to a new EQUITY(!) high, you might hear it from me. Doing it while maintaining a low DD you might even hear a "good job".

huge 21% booked profit now in July since the drawdown in June, and of course you were only really trying to highlight a negative once again... the small 10% open drawdown currently.... and of course it didn't sound BAD enough to post, as everyone just loves smearing me here and not acknowledging any positives....

21% profit with 15%dd at the time of writing is just not as awesome as you want to make it sound. In fact saying that you made 21% profit is mileading.

1 - I have published at least 6 other profitable strategies that are now either private or had drawdowns after periods of between 9 and 28 months, which indicated that I should make further improvements before I make them public again. This is prudent and wise and good practice. The new updated flagship low risk strategy will be live in August.

Can't remember those profitable strategies, do you have any screenshots or want to make them public again?

2 - I have had trade copy subscribers ....

Too lazy to read all that blabla

[primi]

Pamm clients know how to adjust risk multipliers, take profits, add capital, and invest for the long term. Much much more valuable skills than the ones practiced by trade copiers.

Complete bull$hit. The only reason for you to say this is because you'd love to have tons of PAMM clients instead of copiers because you expect to make more money on performance fees.

But this is still very much pointless because for anybody to make any money you need to have first of all a profitable underlying strategy and a responsible trader. And here we don't have neither the first nor the second.

[OutsideTheBoxHK]

- Thats great, why do you only publish "bad" accounts, and never the succesfull ones? Would help your case a lot!
- Don't know that, cant check it, so i take it as a fact. But what is it you want to tell us with that? Many obvious high risk martingale systems have 10 times that many subscribers in no time, that doesn't really mean anything. People are greedy.
- Yes i know that, because you said it more than enough times already. Better put it on a savings account if you keep trading like you did in the last 3 month.

Amadorian
so so funny and telling that you just deleted your other more recent post, which actually gave Outside the Box a great compliment and acknowledged how well I have been managing the recovery so far... huge 21% booked profit now in July since the drawdown in June, and of course you were only really trying to highlight a negative once again... the small 10% open drawdown currently.... and of course it didn't sound BAD enough to post, as everyone just loves smearing me here and not acknowledging any positives.... so you deleted it. but thanks anyway for showing me that there are good thoughts out there, just no one wants to take the time or the courage to make them public.

1 - I have published at least 6 other profitable strategies that are now either private or had drawdowns after periods of between 9 and 28 months, which indicated that I should make further improvements before I make them public again. This is prudent and wise and good practice. The new updated flagship low risk strategy will be live in August.

2 - I have had trade copy subscribers all throughout my 30 months of providing my strategy for trade copying and fund management. This means there are those who have trusted my trading and who have verified that the results are real and accurate. There are also those who didn't replicate the stellar returns that my masters accounts did over those 9 to 28 months, and thus they are frustrated and disappointed. This is quite understandable. The benefit comes in other beginning traders seeing a tough situation or cycle of situations be resolved and see that IT IS possible to experience "naysaying" and "doubters" and "psychological resistance and unhelpfulness" and still maintain resilience to finally attain expertise and mastery.
Those with the dream of a second stream of income, financial independence, those who have lost considerable sums of money, or those who would like to earn income from home once retired etc.
The benefit comes from the first 29 months of the deployment of my strategies and to see them come to fruition and a positive conclusion. As others on the same journey will no doubt encounter these exact pitfalls and will benefit from seeing that it is possible to keep fighting and coming back stronger from "failures".
There are many investors who do not speak up or support, because they too are trying to avoid needless and unproductive banter and bickering, which they know is the worst influence on the peaceful mind of a good trader and long term investor. So these people stay silent and do not want to sully their name on a public online forum for fear of the same reprisal that I and other "bad traders/investors" have experienced.
I am not focusing on those who have given up and who are allowing their mouths to verbalise frustration. The true strength is in those who continue quietly believing that mastery is attainable and that good communication is necessary for this to happen.

3 - Disappointment is fine, but it's what you do next, how you deal with disappointment that defines a trader's ultimate success.
That's why I try to educate investors how to brush those negative emotions off as quickly as possible. What, in the end, do they produce of value? Not much.
Reflection is the real goal, but certainly not fighting, verbal abuse, complaining, and ignoring that endurance leads to slow progress over time.
Subscribers / investors are NEVER promised ATM-like / no drawdown type profits. They are given a choice to follow my trading by copying, by looking at my verified history, and by monitoring their account's balance, margin available, lot sizing, etc while it is connected. Furthermore, I do not have control/ knowledge of the capital they have invested like I do with Fund Clients, and so I have to educate trade copy subscribers that they must remain vigilant and engaged in the trading process.
If you want the gold standard in forex investment, then PAMM fund is the only way to go. If you want to go cheap and hope to get rich by paying a monthly fee, then that is also possible.
Pamm clients know how to adjust risk multipliers, take profits, add capital, and invest for the long term. Much much more valuable skills than the ones practiced by trade copiers.

[Amadorian]

I've booked over 19% profit this month after the drawdown and you still can't point to the good.

19% booked profit doesn't mean that much if you are in a 13% dd atm, and 2 or 3 days back it was at 25% or something.

And it's sad to me that you talk about "how my trading career will ONLY survive IF" .... like who are you to tell others when their career starts or finishes. Like sheesh, get a clue and get a life. Do something good with your time instead of raining on the parade of others eh.
Do you know I have another private high risk strategy that has earned $2000 USD in just 10 days on $5000 capital? No.
Do you know I have 23 fund clients and 12 trade copy subscribers to service? Guess not.
Do you know I have $55,000 USD of my own trading capital remaining to compound? Guess not.
Do you know I have 4 new Introductory Brokers who I have been speaking with over the last 2 weeks about them wanting to sell my strategy to Russians, Taiwanese, Chinese, and Eastern Europeans? Guess not.
These are just some of the irons in the fire over here.
What about you?

- Thats great, why do you only publish "bad" accounts, and never the succesfull ones? Would help your case a lot!
- Don't know that, cant check it, so i take it as a fact. But what is it you want to tell us with that? Many obvious high risk martingale systems have 10 times that many subscribers in no time, that doesn't really mean anything. People are greedy.
- Yes i know that, because you said it more than enough times already. Better put it on a savings account if you keep trading like you did in the last 3 month.
- Actually, i don't doubt that. They earn a ton of fees because of your high risk trading, but thats not a sign that you are a great trader. They dont care if customers make money, lose money or stay on breakeven, the want the fees. And with your frequent trades and big lot sizes you make them a lot of money.

You had half a million in investors money, thats great and all, i would be happy about that to be honest. But actually, thats still absolutely nothing in this business.
You are not a super star.

Maybe you can be a good trader, i don't know, at the moment you're simply not!

[OutsideTheBoxHK]

And it's sad to me that you talk about "how my trading career will ONLY survive IF" .... like who are you to tell others when their career starts or finishes. Like sheesh, get a clue and get a life. Do something good with your time instead of raining on the parade of others eh.
Do you know I have another private high risk strategy that has earned $2000 USD in just 10 days on $5000 capital? No.
Do you know I have 23 fund clients and 12 trade copy subscribers to service? Guess not.
Do you know I have $55,000 USD of my own trading capital remaining to compound? Guess not.
Do you know I have 4 new Introductory Brokers who I have been speaking with over the last 2 weeks about them wanting to sell my strategy to Russians, Taiwanese, Chinese, and Eastern Europeans? Guess not.
These are just some of the irons in the fire over here.
What about you?